Acquired skill vs set skill.

I say meta isn't ENTIRELY bad, though it does get rid of the creativity and joy in making your own deck and winning with it after trial and error. I may make meta decks, but from time to time i make something special like my Rise of Darkness which happens to be in my cemetery shop .

I believe that they are decks that should be used for the less skilled players to use against the higher skilled players to even the odds. Though i'm not on the defense of meta, they are indeed broken and in most cases should not be used.

i was saying use it to even odds, but i never said anything about not using normal decks, they should of course practice with people around their skill level to get better and eventually be able to take on meta with normal decks. Meta is more like to get a feel for the game, but ppl abuse that and use it despite their skill level. This is merely the best way to use meta in my opinion; it is however better to be rid of them. I'm used to MTG where there is no such thing as meta and it is very hard to get the hang of the game. It took me a year to get used to the game whereas with yugioh, a mere month; however the roles should be switched as magic is infinitely harder than yugioh and yugioh doesn't have the need for such easy to play decks. Even with that they should indeed not exist, but as years pass company designers run out of ideas and end up making things like meta so in the end, meta is an inevitable result of Konami spamming the creation of decks in the way the have.

I also wonder why we are the only ones on this thread

if we could play empty jar in the tourney i would be overjoyed just saying

I think moondar is saying that in the greed of money, they made the game shit, in a way, bt he is also saying that wat if u played n000bs for days and there was no challenge; then wats the point of the game?

Anyways,moondar is right(in my opinion)

Ace your just saying,new players should just play meta for a "Challenge" Is something wrong with the people who play with non-meta decks with skill?

I was not actually talking about money as that is obviously what all companies really care about and so there is no need to mention it; What i was saying earlier is that the game is designed in a way that they have to put decks out every few months or else the game gets boring, but by releasing so many decks they quickly run out of ideas on how to make the decks even which in turn created meta. I was comparing the game to Magic The Gathering as the two games are similar; yet very different. Magic releases sets of cards in a slower pace, but due to the fact that with that game the "attribute" matters a lot more, they also made their game's universe a lot more diverse. They also do not release amazing decks like in yugioh; they release mediocre decks that have basic synergy and are simply good to base your deck off of and then release sets of random cards designed so that there are at least more then 20 ways to build a deck, if we take white decks for example you could mix them with other attributes, keep it pure white, or make it an artifact deck(or maybe just have an artifact engine), this is the simple way of explaining deck building in MTG. To conclude, Magic has a better deck building system, but is A LOT more complex then yugioh and most of the less creative people go to play yugioh as pretty much all the good decks are pre-made. Also so that no one misunderstands; I am not saying there are no creative yugioh players, there are tons of them. It's simply that the amount of non-creative yugioh players are greater in number. I would suggest new players to attempt to create their own deck and get experience with that kind of deck before EVER playing meta; I can't say simply don't play meta because there are very few that would listen to that statement.

I think the meta isn't even bad at all, have you ever seen what a skilled player can do with a non-meta deck? Instead of complaining about the meta, you should just learn to win against meta decks, an important part of a player's growth is actually playing these decks and taking basic concepts like loops with certain cards, basic combos, and improvising, then applying these concepts to a deck of their own. Did you know that one of my favorite decks of all time, scraps, managed to top a ycs once, but scraps died out rather quickly once people figured out they couldn't use the deck quite as effectively. Scraps were my first deck that were even close to competitive. With Scraps, i could destroy the chaos dragons of last format with ease, the only problems i had were with dark worlds, which were tier two, and that was a problem shadow-imprisoning mirror easily fixed. I know that this is kinda contradicting my argument about meta being a good thing, but what I was trying to point out was that you should just get good with a certain deck. I mean, look at blackbird69, he uses a deck that was widely considered dead after the hit to dragonfly and hornet, yet he still wins quite often because he is just plain good with them. To truly beat the meta, you just gotta side well and be good. On dn, just play matches, you'll end up with less dw's and such because they are so easy to side against, and you can just side against the meta you hate so much, for instance, use system down on wind-ups, prohibition for pretty much anything, and other cards I don't really care to mention.

Idk about the others, but my opinion is that they are far too easy to use and when used its either win or lose, not much room for competition. They also remove most players from the idea of making their own decks and being proud of their victories with something that is original, made to their style, and if it is OP then they can be even more proud of it. With meta it's all about the win, if there is any form of pride in winning with those decks then it is false pride. Take my (dreaded) victory over our leader for instance, im not proud of that victory, i used someone else's idea to beat someone. if i had used my custom dark deck, then even if i lost, as long as it was close in some way then i would feel pride in such a duel, but the fact that "my" monarchs were someone else's idea and made it one-sided, i feel quite empty about the victory. That is how i feel about meta, now then i'll just go back to being bored as that's all i have to say about this topic.

also i think that my pic makes everything i say more serious then it actually is, what you guys think?

Meta decks are broken but in my experience playing yu-gi-oh, people get frustrated when they play their original made decks and it keeps losing to the current meta over and over again. It just makes you feel pretty pissed off. I had an original ehero deck built afew months ago that utilized mostly normal monsters. I scrapped it because no matter how good it was, it would still lose like 7 times to the meta decks before getting one win.

That doesn't really state whether ur in the thumbs up for meta or not... just saying

Halo, you gotta realize that to get to the very pinnacle of yugioh, you must use a really good deck with broken plays and such. Don't you think that the decks that are in use today are in use solely because they are the best at what they do, fire fist are the best at holding advantage, wind-ups are best at otks and making shock master, and so on and so forth. The thing about all of these decks is that if you think about it, these decks are actually someone's fun, creative, yet amazing decks, that just gained popularity and became meta. For instance at the end of the last format, right after the new banned list was leaked, someone was working on his wind-up deck, buying all the other player's unwanted cards, and keep in mind this was at my locals, so this guy is getting all these wind-up cards cheap from people dumping them because they thought the deck was dead. However, the guy then enter's the turbo pack tournament and sweeps through it. This guy was my friend, so i go and ask him what kind of deck he was using, and he says wind-ups. I thought it was the old wind-ups, but he was using a deck that would work next format. I now know that build as the wind-up build of this format. He then goes on to say "Everyone says wind-ups are dead, do they look dead to you?" after showing me the infamous shark magician play. I just thought wow, this guy really knows how to play, only for people like you to call his deck unoriginal, and just autopilot.

And this is why i play magic the gathering... no such thing as meta, pretty much any deck is fair game if you want a challenge and the best part is... it promotes creativity! the main difference which makes me more of an mtg player then a yugioh player is that all well made decks are so adaptive that you don't know what they can pull off and when! in yugioh if you look at a meta deck it is pretty much auto pilot, the moves are easily predicted and it kinda ruins the game as you tend to learn where the game is headed before the guy even starts his combo, with mtg that rarely ever happens and so most of the time when you find out his combo (if he has one) then he's either in the middle of it or has already pulled it off. due to the fact that mtg has a much more diverse gaming universe it allows for more thinking rather then memorizing. the closest thing to meta in that game is the "idea" of a deck; however the deck build is always different, should you take a six sam deck from yugioh there is pretty much only one way to effectively build it. Take a goblin deck from mtg and you can make it a burn, a swarm, a stall, and many more options. this doesn't make mtg 100% better than yugioh, if yugioh took this characteristic it may become a better game than mtg is (in my opinion).

I kinda just don't like the game mechanics of mtg in general, i really like the faster paced style of yugioh

Well, you can't really rat on archtypes since the last two decks i saw you making were guardians and archfiends. Also, archtypes have some of the most interesting playstyles, Crystal Beasts in particular, but some decks just can't keep up no matter how much work you put into them, maybe Crystal Beasts if you can figure out a way to spam crystal abundance, but that's beside the point, not every deck has broken support like Crystal Abundance that allow players to make it competitive.

It doesn't really matter whether or not someone makes archetypes in yugioh cuz that's how this game is designed sadly, less creativity, more memorization, i agree that if you make such a deck that you shouldn't talk too badly about it. In this situation however it is indeed viable to due to the fact that konami has designed this game to be more "by the book" rather than having a deck made from a bunch of random cards that somehow synergize well. Since this is how it is the game is more about who can memorize what to with what hand rather than figure out what you should do.

What i meant by the point about hands is that is simply how it is, not how it should be. As for the "throw random cards together" part i didn't mean literally random cards, i meant card combinations that aren't common; sorry if i worded that wrong the 1st time. I think that most of this conversation has to do more with the way konami has built the gamerather then the actual skill of the players because this game doesn't promote much growth skill wise.

DHalo you are completly right

though id like to ask you something dhalo, what is your opinion on the archetypes that aren't meta?